“White woman - Which Karen are you?”
"Which Karen are you?" stands as a critical question in a world marked by conflicts, upheavals, and a pivotal year of elections that could shape the future of democracies worldwide. In this conversation with Regina Jackson and Saira Rao, the authors behind the New York Times bestseller and creators of the documentary "Deconstructing Karen", we delve deeper into this question. They shed light on the role white women play in maintaining racial divides and how the 'Karen' phenomenon reflects broader societal challenges. With sharp observations and unequivocal critique, they invite us to reflect on our own actions and the implicit power that comes with privileges. Jackson and Rao have seriously put white feminism on the agenda. And it's about how white women in the Western world contribute daily to racism.
"It's the white woman's urge for niceness that's killing us." The words are not sugar-coated when they come from the mouth of American author Saira Rao. That's the whole point: "If we can't have honest conversations, then we will never move forward," she says. And that is exactly what Saira Rao, in collaboration with Regina Jackson, has set out to do; to insist on the conversations that are often shut down or never take place. They are behind The New York Times bestseller White Women, which was released earlier this month and soon after sold out in parts of the world. They can also be seen in the documentary Deconstructing Karen, which follows one of the famous and infamous dinner parties that Saira and Regina have established under the name Race2Dinner. A neatly set table with crystal glasses, floral arrangements, elegantly arranged plates, and raw truths about the violence of everyday racism. "There's no better place for an honest conversation than around the dinner table. After three years, we can safely say that it's easier to have conversations about racism and xenophobia when breaking bread together," says Regina.
“55% of American white women voted for Trump - the second time, mind you, and by the way, this is true elsewhere in the world - this is not just an American problem”
There is a before and after George Floyd
It was in the aftermath of the murder of American George Floyd in 2020 that anti-racism suddenly became a topic on everyone's lips. People across the globe took to the streets - both physically and on the internet - with banners and hashtags like "I can't breathe" and "Black Lives Matter." Saira and Regina felt the impact distinctly and became busy with bookings for their dinner parties. "For the first time ever, we in the USA are beginning to have radically honest conversations," says Regina with an expression that indicates it's about time. Together, Saira and Regina decided to push back against the niceness and conflict avoidance that has for too long killed the necessary conversations about racism. They wanted to challenge the idea that talking about power and politics is dangerous, especially at the dinner table, family gatherings, workplace cafeterias, or among close friends. "Only white people can dismantle racism." Saira and Regina consistently use the term "white people" to clarify that we are used to not mentioning one skin color because it is at the center of everything. "It's a widespread misconception that white supremacy only concerns the Ku Klux Klan, Nazis, or Republicans. The reality is that the entire Western society is based on white supremacy, which is why you don't call yourselves 'white people,' but just people, and refer to non-white people as representing diversity."
Which Karen are you?
'Karen' is not only a frequent subject in the book White Women, but also part of the title of the documentary Deconstructing Karen. It's not about a specific person, but rather a type that isn't very flattering; in fact, the term is often used derogatorily to describe a white woman who feels entitled to behave in a certain way. There are countless Karen memes, and the Speak-to-the-manager Karen has almost become a meme classic. "There are different 'Karens'," says Saira, "There's the 'Karen' who calls the police for no real reason other than a person having a different skin color." In the film, they use the example from when Amy Cooper accused a Black man of threatening her in Central Park, even though he was simply pointing out that her dog was not on a leash in an area of the park where it was required. The incident was dubbed 'Central Park Karen,' and went viral in the spring of 2020. "But there's also the more common 'Karen' who is silent about racism. A person who just watches without proactively standing up for people of color. The kind of Karen you are depends on how aware you are, but also on how you use your power. What does that look like for you? Not your friend, not your mother, not your neighbor, but when you look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, 'what kind of Karen am I? How do I use, or how do I not use, my white power?'"
Toxic Positivity
In the book, they've gathered some of the most persistent attempts to shut down the conversation about racism in order to maintain what they perceive as 'the good vibe,' without considering that for others it is toxic. This can be with well-meaning intentions, like "all people are equal," "I don't see race, I see the person," "it's about what's inside - not just the outside." Or "love it away!" says Regina, with a slight smile, "No, you just can't do that." Saira adds: "It's using the language of humanity and love to ignore the specific violence in daily oppression, and this is used to pretend that love will overcome racism, sexism, transphobia, homophobia, all these things. No, if that were the case, we wouldn't be here right now. It's intellectually dishonest - which is a polite way of saying it's a lie."
Another way to put it is "toxic positivity": "Racism exists - don't be so negative. Focus on our humanity instead. Look on the bright side. Relax and enjoy it. But that's what can be described as gaslighting - a mental trick meant to make BIPOC people (Black, Indigenous, People of Color) feel like they are making it up, or exaggerating," says Regina, and Saira adds: "It's a way of erasing: your experience doesn't exist, it's not important. But try being on the receiving end of racism." During the dinner parties, there's only one rule that must be followed: If you cry, or feel the urge to cry, you must go into an adjoining room where there's Kleenex and a chance to cry it out. "Yes, it's uncomfortable to acknowledge that as a white woman you play a part," says Regina. "If a white woman cries, it removes attention and becomes about her feelings," says Saira, and Regina adds: "It's really about listening. That's something many white people find difficult, because they're used to being the center of attention all the time."
By simplifying problems that are complex and structural, one makes the people concerned invisible and worsens the problem: "Have you seen those stickers that one can put on their car: 'be kind' or 'kindness trumps'. All this nonsense: It's an entire industry. How many white women have actually become billionaires from such 'love industries' through cultural appropriation of African, Asian, and Latin American cultures?" Saira asks rhetorically, "making money by literally stealing yoga from South Asia. Enough is enough - stop it now!"
Why is structural racism still ignored in 2024?
In an era where the internet has connected large parts of the world, and where the so-called Generation Z views a young person in Hungary as if they were a classmate in high school. Where conversations about offense culture, #metoo, #blacklivesmatter have filled the space for better or worse, how can it be that there are still some who believe that racism does not exist?
"It's because of two things," says Regina, "the first is because of the phenomenon of white solidarity. If you draw attention to white solidarity, or if you start to speak out against racism, oppression, then you will lose your place as part of this white solidarity. The second is the white social status: You have a choice. As brown and black people, we don't have a choice. We have to fight against racism because we have families, we have children, grandchildren, we have communities that suffer under it. But you can choose. And what's more important? Is it more important to be a decent person, than to maintain your white status and be part of white solidarity? There will be losses - lose jobs, you will lose friends, and you will lose family members." Saira explains that there is also a freedom associated with addressing racism, "because it's not only black and brown people, it's everyone, and as a white woman, you also have the grip of white supremacy and patriarchy around your neck."
Perfectionism keeps many from acting on injustice
We talk about the niceness, politeness, and not wanting to be a bother, how perfectionism and the fear of making a mistake keep many from acting on injustice. Saira uses a metaphor that is also included in the book White Women: "If white femininity were a house, then the need to be perfect would be its foundation. It is this need for perfection that makes it impossible to engage in anti-racism work." The perpetual mantra, according to Saira and Regina, is so implicitly embedded in Western society: If it's just perfect, then you have the key to happiness, success, indeed to one's entire existence.
"One has to acknowledge the role one plays and the systems one helps to maintain, which are racist. I mean, first you have to recognize, and then you can start to do the work," says Regina. "Yes, and when you can't avoid seeing it, then you have to do something about it. That's essentially what this book, these dinners, and this film are about. It's a way of looking at it."
In the wake of #metoo, the conversation about sexism has made it almost de rigueur to say down with the patriarchy, but there is still a long way to go to recognize that it's not only the white man who holds power, but also white feminism that helps to maintain it. "I received an email from the Women's March," Regina recounts, "and when I emailed them back, I wrote: If white women would stop voting for Republicans, then we wouldn't need these kinds of demonstrations," she says. "No, because 55% of American white women voted for Trump - the second time, mind you," Saira emphasizes, "and by the way, this is true elsewhere in the world - this is not just an American problem. Look at who is going to take over in France at some point, it's a white woman who is a fascist. Look at Italy - it's happening all around the world," she points out, continuing, "All Regina and I are doing is speaking out loud, and we hear from many white women that they feel like the emperor's new clothes. They feel naked. Because they read about themselves, and it dawns on them. They think, just because we haven't said it, it means we haven't shown it. So many white women have come up to me and said Namaste. Stop it now! And walk around with their dreadlocks, and all that. Enough is enough! It's time we talk about it because it's always been this way - the only difference is that we're saying it out loud now. And I guess not all of you were aware that we felt this way. But now you know."
Race2Dinner
In 2019, Regina Jackson and Saira Rao founded the concept of Race2Dinner. The purpose was to challenge white women to become aware of structural racism and accept their own, perhaps unconscious racism. The dinner itself, in all its simplicity, involves a white woman volunteering to host a dinner at her home for about seven other white women. The price is $2,500, which is covered by the host or split among the guests. The evening's conversation is led by the two founders, Regina Jackson, who is Black, and Saira Rao, who identifies as Indian American.
In the book White Women, Saira and Regina describe white feminism as a feminism that sees everything through a gender lens - for example, only seeing one's own oppression as a woman, without recognizing one's power as a white woman.
This interview was originally supposed to be published in the Danish magazine Femina, but they chose not to feature it at the same time last year. Now, it will be published on March 8th, 2024.